Importent: Debait on chronicles and StoryTellers

Alright, i've been talking with some of the group and the impression and have been getting some really negative lets call it "behind the STs back" commenting, which has resulted in people withdrawing from chronicles. In this very thread I want you to be as honest and mean as possible, for improvement purposes. I want you guys to tell me what you truly think of chronicles and how we can improve them.

This may result in MSN group chats or in game chats, depending on what people feel. Remember to be honest.

Note: Please be adults about this.

here is an example:

Baton Rouge By night
I feel that the game is slow and hard to get into. Althoug the story is good, I just feel the game is too dull

How to fix this
I think the game could be improved by adding in more twists and mystery. Maybe use NPCs to spark things up a bit when the game is going slow. More fighting could help to increase intrest a bit.

Hmm, Odd thread, im going to observe for now!

Amsterdam by Night
The game is mainly based on one player which pushes other players away from the game. Resulting in either players been confused on the curent storyline or players not been able to get involed at all and end up walking around on the streets or AFKing which slows down the game even more.

How to fix this
Using bios could be a powerful way to get players into the chronicle, something small like what I did with lucy and the sword. Getting players to do this gives them a reason to play. Try basing the story on everyone, or no one at all and let players choose what is going to happen either by their actions or where they go.

My only comment is on my own style i want to go from "i talk" to "I carefully straighten out my jacket and tie, then continue to elaborate on my point in an elegant, convincing manner"

Ok first off, yes i avoid other chrons as of late
however mostly its personal reasons that are my fault not the ST's
and i enjoy STing my own chron way too much to actually go back to RPing a single character...
but now to the things that bother me:

Baton Rogue:
bastardisation of nwod and owod (note: this is MY problem not the ST's)
allowing the sabbat to work against the others (fixed now)
Emilie outlived her purpose, i cant find anything to hook me in there at this time
as Emilie wouldnt associate with either Groups. (Personal Problem again)

I dont want to tell Doan how to run his games, I enjoyed the first ones, but now i rather let
him focus on his players than trying to fix something that is wrong with me and my character not the chronicle

Trogers2:
no pnp, no wod conception of any kind, inappropriate content (Personal problem as with doan, its ST decision and it does not interest me)
players feel unimportant no matter what they do
last games go whacky very fast, and i couldnt follow anymore, feeling out of place with my character (wich resulted in putting her to sleep)
also like with baton rogue, i feel it is wrong to force myself to play the games and slow down the games for the players who do enjoy it.

Improvement: you are on your way from what ive seen, but still I cant get myself to participate because its not pnp or wod

Seakyro
I dont like the Future idea, shadow is a great ST but he could do much more than this from what i heared about phoenix
the games turning into 3 hours of Vs character talking just arent worth my time again this is a personal problem, I choose not to participate anymore because its not my type of game, and also my character does not fit with the rest.

again I cant stress enough that most of these are Personal Choices, I dont dislike any of the STs the chrons just are not for me
and to be fair i stay away so i dont bog down other peoples fun.



A Word on my Own chronicle... AbN
Yes i admit i focus a lot on one character, however I focus on those that regulary show up for games, and show interest
and right now the focus is actually on Jaden not on Garrett, as its his part of the Plot at this time.

And yes I admit i avoided players of the KK in my chronicle because they were to hard to include or spark up their interest, which I did
to allow for more fluent gameplay for my Main players.

As I have told Aero several times, i take constructive critisim and try to improve on it if i see a point, but again this is personal choice of the ST
My chron isnt for everyone, those who dont like it should stay away and do as all a favor that way, and enjoy their other games instead.

I would like to include players like Piper and VL but their Character Choices and low interaction chance with the other players turn them
into problem players, and neither has come forward to include themselves.

Also, consider the Timezones, If i wait for everyone to come to my game ill never get to host a storyline game. because Someone will ALWAYS miss the game.
If i focus on those players that rarley show interest in joining, my current players will loose interest, and stop playing and i can close down
my chron.

and this is a living world chronicle, what everyone does has effect, ask doan or doe, or izzy he knows best...
if you choose to flirt with npcs, or just stand around and watch you dont have an effect on the story, you become an extra not a player.

my next thing would be: this concerns all chronicles
The PVP Issue...
PVP is a nightmare for every ST, you can see it with me restraining isador, doan cutting off his sabbat group from the others...
When I first planned Amsterdam to be a FF Political and PVP Chron nobody wanted to join, so i switched it to a storyline wich was CONCEPTED AROUND ME AND GARRETT as he was the only one interested!
for some reason people quickly got interested in the new gameplay and eventually even izzy showedup to play,
and he went against the goals of the others and everyones reaction was "this is not good, isador is a bully"

Again i was forced to restrain one player to keep the others with me.

I know its not nice to loose your character because of another player.. and i as ST cant protect you from him, if he lucks out on rolls he wins..
its just a simple fact that i cant do it without being unfair.


Id say this is my 2 cents but considering the size its my 20$

Baton Rouge By night
I feel that the game is slow and hard to get into. Althoug the story is good, I just feel the game is too dull

How to fix this
I think the game could be improved by adding in more twists and mystery. Maybe use NPCs to spark things up a bit when the game is going slow. More fighting could help to increase intrest a bit.

I see, thanks for the feedback. I can see what I can do to fix this.

Here are my $20.01 (I am adding a penny)

Trogers' Games
Good points:
Easy to get around. Easy to go on your own. Do not have to follow the group. Pretty available at most times. Open sandbox freedom. ST knows VTMR commands pretty well.

Bad points:
Sometimes the whole story gets stuck till a Deux Ex Machina saves the day. Special NPCs are too overpowered. Some NPCs reactions are NOT believable or realistic. Consequences for actions are unrealistic. ST sometimes complain about a confusing part of the story (deterring the players from joining), ST sometimes apologizes for slow games or says he didn't feel like STing. Hard to play the character the way the player intends it to. No original ideas.

Doan's Games
Good points:
Fun chronicle. Objective for the chronicles were stated at the beginning in orderly fashion. Freedom to follow one's own goal. Conspiracy theory. Mystery to crack. ST listens to feedback. ST is open for persuasion and discussion.

Bad points:
Game turned from a Chronicle to Free Form. Somewhat unrealistic consequences of fights. Objective of the players got lost or forgotten. Combining OWoD to NWoD creating a confusing lore. Experience gain is too slow. Usually hard to reach ST on MSN. Lack of money is an issue in the game. OWoD disciplines used are more powerful than NWoD disciplines used.

Mopy's Games
Good points:
Strong story. Deep characters. World is driven. Fast game. Realistic consequences for actions. ST listens to feedback. No obstacle is too impossible for players to beat. Desire to strive. Strict NWoD focus. ST is lenient to players' characters (chars, not actions). ST always ready for the next game.

Bad Points:
ST gets cranky when the storyline changes. Character handling has changed several times. Some NPCs seem too omniscient. Story is too rigid to be able to accommodate character's actions easily. ST changes opinions occasionally. Hints to solve goals are too subtle for players to figure out.

Shadow's Games
Good points:
Really deep characters, enhanced world, plot twists, more surprises up the ST's sleeve. ST focuses on players who put emotions and feelings in their characters. Focus on the human (or inhuman) side of vampires. Very good English skills (terms for expressions). Desire to strive. No overpowered chars allowed and no overpowered NPCs. Consequences for every action.

Bad Points:
Some violent scenes and events. Too much character interactions and NPC interaction that puts certain players in the spotlights. Game atmosphere is almost always gloomy. ST's games are either Love'em or Hate'em, no in-between. Must keep vigil or another would outwit the player. Toying with the players who act stupidly. Certain player is not online = not a good game.

V's Games
Good points:
Games are a HUGE fun. Started the no-rolling system. Game is always intense and interesting (at least for me). Too much focus on emotions. Incredibly intertwining characters together. Focus on the players' interaction. Open sandbox freedom. Fast thinking of good events. No unrealistic events or actions allowed. Combine historical facts to fiction.

Bad Points:
Some obscene scenes and events. ST cannot focus on more than 2-3 players without losing focus. Game session is usually too short. No fixed time for hosting. Certain player is not online = ST not hosting. Usually hard to reach ST on MSN. Events that the ST favors will get their way at the end. Players joining later in the chronicle ruin the game for early playing players.

(Note: Right here, I am being a bit negative. But you asked for it... )
I am writing the points in short. If anyone would like me to elaborate, kindly state it.

I'd like to say, before randemly making a toon for a chronicle you should consider what the chronicle is about, time time etc... Otherwise you end up with what happend to Vincent/Adoree.

Like Mopy said, turning a game into a sabbat game or trying to kill other players when they haven't done anything wrong is just wrong in my view, no body likes to see their toon get killed.

Here are a few things I think the current STs need to work on
-Mopy, Needs to try and get others involed whenever possible. Even if you randemly get an NPC to chat with them. Also i don't like the fact that you seem to whisper what you want players to do, although this seems to have stopped. It's a good idea to know how many people are going to turn up before hand so you can base your game around those people... If someone joins late, think of ways of getting them into the storyline, you can do this with NPCs, letters etc... If a player has a reason for been in the city, use that.

-Doan, Needs to increase the speed of his games a bit. Thats just my view, but the pace is too slow for me. I'd say a bit of NPC talking would spice things up, the plot seems to be getting more weaker by the day, something to spice up the storyline would go a long way such as... "There is a spy in the camarilla..." or "The prince was kidnapped"...

-ShadowLance, We all know shadow is our number 1 ST, but I feel his latest game is too heavily based on Ashes and his Vine. The last 4 games were pretty much the same actually most of the games were the same to me anyway. I think Shadow needs to try and focus more on other players as well as Ashes.

-Trogers2, A part from the fact I don't use WOD rules, my pain problem is adding in my own things here such as Lobo and Spirit wolves, werewolfs attacking town etc... I'm currently working on this as we speak. Toeko is set to be more realistic than my other games.. I'd like to add that I do not use WOD rules mainly because I simply don't like the limits. I feel that following the game as normal is more easier as well as eaiser to RP without any of this "NWOD clans" or "OWOD Caine crap" stuff, my games are lightweight and made so everyone can take part"

-Vtmrxtc, I'd say V has a bit of me in him haha, with the Leonard demon, Gargoles and all. Although I'd say V is our 2nd Class ST, V needs to work on preparing first hand, maybe put down a few NPCs before the game starts to avoid any issues.

All looks fine to me... thats my comment...

Alright, I hope all the STs have had a good look at these comments and will relfect on them to improve. I don't want anyone to take this too serious, all the chronicles going on at the moment are awesome otherwise why would we play them? I hope to see some improvement on the current chronicles soon.

Must say im satisfied with what i see so far , too. ^^

Its all good from my point of view.

First off, I know I've been majorly MIA, so apologies for that.

Second, I'm glad people are being honest, best way to improve ST-ing and ST for a specific crowd.

Thanks to everyone for the compliments and constructive criticism I really appreciate that and it encourages me to keep hosting.

Regarding Seakyro:

First, there are story-events, that happen occasionally, maybe 50% of games. Then there are CHARACTER based events, such as wastelanders going out into the wasteland, GSC officers finding out they are being investigated by internal affairs, etc. Those typically happen in 75% of games. You may not see them because they are only happening to certain characters, or you are busy with your own.

But despite this, overall, the games are driven by the players. Often I'll throw situations in, like "random forced blood test", or "rebellion wants you to join", and where they go depends entirely on the player.

For example, the random blood test lead to Robert shooting two GSC dead, which lead to the rebels wanting him to join and offering him safety, which lead to the other players being pulled along into the whole deal and eventually ended up with four players flying to former Great Britain to attack a GSC lab and getting into a very... tricky spot

The major problem with Seakyro isn't that "nothing happens", its that the characters have very shallow goals or none at all. Normally blaming players for a chron would make me cringe and gag, but this is the thread for honesty. Still, it's my fault too, I either didn't make that clear, or I'm just hosting the wrong type of chron.

For example, Jericho's goal is "make some money". Robert's is... stay alive? Isabelle's is "hang around til something exciting happens", etc etc.

The reason Ashes gets a lot of attention is because the character has a lot of goals and is constantly working towards them. I NEVER put the character into a leadership position, he was just the only one trying get everyone under his wing and go work towards his goals with him. I'm not saying all players should do that, I'm just pointing out why the game turned out like that.

Maybe I should have stressed the amount of freedom available..

I mean if a player's goal became to sell out the rebellion in order to gain favor with the GSC in order to take them down from the top, that player's character would look like the star of the chronicle, because tons of shit would be happening because of them.

Think about real life. The guy who just hangs around, waiting for something exciting to happen, ends up waiting forever. The guy who took action, strove for goals, fucked up and succeeded and fucked up again, eventually reaches those goals and exciting things happen along the way and in the end...

There's nothing that says getting arrested by the GSC means game-over. It just means you'll be RP-ing a prison scene and your character will have a challenge to overcome. Isador knows what I mean from Phoenix.

Actions have consequences, but that doesn't mean you should avoid ALL actions except those I force you into.

I've been gone a lot. Taking accelerated summer classes. But I should be on more once finished with those.

Now that that rant is over, I apologize to anyone I offended, and want to end by saying I'm killing Seakyro, the next game is the last.

Im Sad Seakyro is coming to an end, and even sadder that i didnt get a chance to join.

Whats coming next shadow however? Poenix or something new?

ShadowLance wrote:I'm killing Seakyro, the next game is the last.

That was not the goal of the criticism.
But it seems that a whole month off causes people to lose interest in the chronicle (That's not the first time I see this happen).

P.S. All the Bad Points that I mentioned in my thread are NOT things that annoy or upset me. Those were points that I thought they required attention. But I am okay with most of them. In most cases, if I don't mention it to the ST, then it is not bothering me (maybe someone else)

It's not ending because of the criticism posted here

The point of this thread was to get STs to become better, the main point was to stop all this
"I am not joining his games completly"
Which in light terms, really annoys me. I think that banning yourself from STs such as Doan is really disrepsectful, childish and selfish. Putting this to one side I think Shadow has a good point here.

When joining a chronicle (any) It is importent to:

a) Have a clear goal - What does he/she aim to do? Who is he/she here?
b) Make a skin fit for the story, do not join with someone who will not fit in for example playing a vampire hunter in the middle of a sabbat city is not wise at all, although this could lead to you been bored out of your wits or FFing with an NPC if you don't take this into consideration.
c) Try and get involed - Some players relie too much on the ST to do all the handywork for them, a good player will atleast try and get into the story without waiting for the ST to push them. If the ST is busy with 5 or so players, then don't try and push the ST even more or go off in a strop because it takes the ST over 20 mins to reply.
D) Messing up the chronicle - i.e. Making a Rambo Sabbat who goes around killing off other players/NPCs making it really hard for the ST, likewise making an asshole of a skin who really annyos other players can lead to bad ends also *cogh* Gangrel* *Cogh*

Someone banned themselves from my chronicle?

doanlockheart wrote:Someone banned themselves from my chronicle?

No Doan, not just your chronicle. That is the reason I made this thread I wanted to get everyones reasons for avoding games out, and work on those reasons with the ST instead of avoiding the game all together.

, likewise making an asshole of a skin who really annyos other players can lead to bad ends also *cogh* Gangrel* *Cogh*

I wonder if this is a subtle hint

think that banning yourself from STs such as Doan is really disrepsectful, childish and selfish

Not really, if i decided i didnt want to play Baton Rouge anymore, i simply wont play. This is MY free time and i wont waste it too keep the ST happy. Then again i would assume if an ST knew i wasnt happy playing said chronicle, then i would have thought they would rather me not play.

However that said, i will still happily play BR aslong as Doan still hosts it, as i enjoy it very much

Doe wrote:

, likewise making an asshole of a skin who really annyos other players can lead to bad ends also *cogh* Gangrel* *Cogh*

wonder if this is a subtle hint

Indeed

Tem wrote:

Doe wrote:

, likewise making an asshole of a skin who really annyos other players can lead to bad ends also *cogh* Gangrel* *Cogh*

wonder if this is a subtle hint

Indeed

I always thought that Gangrels are "arseholes"
Just teasing. I like the straightforward Gangrel with puppy eyes!

hahah yeah, I wasn't clear on this point. Gangrels are probably the most liked clan I've seen over the years. It's just how people go about them that you've got to be careful about. Gangrels are either a good/bad thing, bad been destroying the storyline/plot and even killing players while good is just snoby and rude.

Aero wrote:

Tem wrote:

Doe wrote:

, likewise making an asshole of a skin who really annyos other players can lead to bad ends also *cogh* Gangrel* *Cogh*

wonder if this is a subtle hint

Indeed

I always thought that Gangrels are "arseholes"
Just teasing. I like the straightforward Gangrel with puppy eyes!

Aint no puppy eyes here!

woah, thats a mega quote.