KK Website

As you may (or may not ) have noticed, the website has undergone a lot of changes concerning it's layout. New pages have been made meaning that some links will not work, or link you to the wrong page. Now I've been looking for these links of course, but I'm sure there are some left I didn't see. If you find out that some link isn't working right, please contact me or Tom..
Also, I've been working hard on the clans' pages and the discinplines pages, if you notice something wrong there, tell me aye?

Hope you like the new looks of the website, if you don't.. then too bad, because I can't change it back

Yours truly,
Enrico

Alright, here's the deal. Isador is crying because he's affraid of the big White Wolf coming down on his ass (thanks to Moepy's horror story about the FBI and stuff :p). He was thinking of moving the WoD page outside the site and wanted to send this new ?file? (the WoD page) to the KK Members..
Now I didn't want that to happen, so I said: "What if we put a password on the WoD section of the site?". He smiled and agreed. So there we have it.. A password for all the KK-Members. This way, no one can view the information, but us...
Too bad actually, I think the guests would have liked our new WoD page.. Anyway, please post your opinion.
I hope Moepy doesn't find a way to scare him again with some legal crap about how it's still ILLEGAL..

Btw: ask me for Pass and Login ID..

Im too scared to view it now to be honest.

what the hell?
What do you mean? xD
Anyway, we decided to just let the WoD page is what it is... No password.

Kikopuz wrote:what the hell?
What do you mean? xD
Anyway, we decided to just let the WoD page is what it is... No password.

I think there is a lot of toodoo over nothing. Mopey's example was a clear case of harm to White Wolf. A site like this one is probably seen as mostly beneficial to them. Unless they feel you are somehow hurting business/profits, they won't go thru the time, effort, and cost and even if they did, the system is probably similar to that here in the USA - the first thing to happen is a cease and desist letter is sent. If you get one, by all means delete the content but they aren't going to use naval guns for a partridge hunt.

nanaloma wrote:

Kikopuz wrote:what the hell?
What do you mean? xD
Anyway, we decided to just let the WoD page is what it is... No password.

I think there is a lot of toodoo over nothing. Mopey's example was a clear case of harm to White Wolf. A site like this one is probably seen as mostly beneficial to them. Unless they feel you are somehow hurting business/profits, they won't go thru the time, effort, and cost and even if they did, the system is probably similar to that here in the USA - the first thing to happen is a cease and desist letter is sent. If you get one, by all means delete the content but they aren't going to use naval guns for a partridge hunt.

Yeah, thats why we decided to leave the password idea.. Tom convinced Isador :p

By the way, who are you? Have I met you before? What's your WON/Hamachi name?
Greetz,
Kikopuz

[quote="Kikopuz"][quote="nanaloma"]

Kikopuz wrote:what the hell?


By the way, who are you? Have I met you before? What's your WON/Hamachi name?
Greetz,
Kikopuz

Stuck in the Pacific time zone plus having Hamachi issues. Trying to find a chronicle to test Trogers2's idea on a fix but I only have his and V's MSN names (it looks like V is the only host that is time compatible anyway). My Hamachi account name is also "Nanaloma". Extremely limited RP experience as I don't like the MMP games concept.

[quote="nanaloma"][quote="Kikopuz"]

nanaloma wrote:

Kikopuz wrote:what the hell?


By the way, who are you? Have I met you before? What's your WON/Hamachi name?
Greetz,
Kikopuz

Stuck in the Pacific time zone plus having Hamachi issues. Trying to find a chronicle to test Trogers2's idea on a fix but I only have his and V's MSN names (it looks like V is the only host that is time compatible anyway). My Hamachi account name is also "Nanaloma". Extremely limited RP experience as I don't like the MMP games concept.

Add me if you want mate, johnmayne20@hotmail.co.uk

Feel free to add me too. aerosilver(at)hotmail(dot)com
Though I am a bit offline most of the time now, with significant RL issues

Doe wrote:Im too scared to view it now to be honest.

I agree with nanaloma I don't see any problem here at all:

A) we have had these pages up for years now and have had no problems
B) We are not breaking laws if you read the laws of the USand UK
C) They would warn us first before taking direct action
D) Loads of WOD content is flying around the internet, do they even care?

On a finak note there is nothing really to worry about, the pages are there use them if needed. You'll find the info is much more easier to read than the pages on the wiki.

Trogers2 wrote:B) We are not breaking laws if you read the laws of the US and UK

I was reading this essay about copyrights:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

"If I make up my own stories, but base them on another work, my new work belongs to me."
False. U.S. Copyright law is quite explicit that the making of what are called "derivative works" -- works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process. If you write a story using settings or characters from somebody else's work, you need that author's permission.

Yes, that means almost all "fan fiction" is arguably a copyright violation. If you want to publish a story about Jim Kirk and Mr. Spock, you need Paramount's permission, plain and simple. Now, as it turns out, many, but not all holders of popular copyrights turn a blind eye to "fan fiction" or even subtly encourage it because it helps them. Make no mistake, however, that it is entirely up to them whether to do that.

The first part is quite the opposite of what you are saying Tom :p
Now the question remains, who is right? Because I don't know if the writer of this essay is telling the truth. On the other hand, I don't know if Tom is telling the truth, because I don't know what the law says...

Anyway Tom, I can't say something about point A, C and D. I'm with you.

I'm not too sure about that and frankly I wouldn't place a lot of trust in articles. Your better off reading the laws as a core. There are a few books which state the laws althought hey are dull and boring.

The worst they can do is take down the content as I am in the UK I follow a different Copyright law and so I haven't comited and crime here. Yolas terms and conditions states:

THEREFORE, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOLA IS NOT RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR, AND MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND REGARDING, THE CONTENT, FUNCTIONALITY, BUSINESS, LEGALITY, ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, QUALITY, RELIABILITY, SECURITY, USEFULNESS OR PRACTICES OF ANY USER SITES OR FOR ANY DEALINGS WITH OR TRANSACTIONS CONDUCTED ON OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY USER SITE

So in essence, if we did get "in trouble" for copy right Yola would stay out of it and we would get the blame. UK law says it is fine to use content of another i.e. BBC as long as it was not directly copied. US laws are different sadly we would be breaking copyright (after a quick glance at the laws).

From what I read here is that it isn't legal like you say.

You may not adapt copyright work, because it is an act restricted by the copyright in a literary, dramatic or musical work..

And also;

The copyright in a work is infringed by a person who, without the licence of the copyright owner, imports into the United Kingdom, otherwise than for his private and domestic use, an article which is, and which he knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of the work.

And about Yola, yeah you're right, WE would get the blame ;P
Where did you get this from?

Trogers2 wrote:UK law says it is fine to use content of another i.e. BBC as long as it was not directly copied.

There are only a few exceptions, and "not directly copying" isn't one of them according to the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, Chapter III of Part 1.

OR IS IT?

Find out, on the next episode of Judge Judy!

[edit] I was about to click Send, when I saw something with: Roll dice to.. and then I clicked Send so I couldnt see it.. but what was that? Can you add dices to the forum now?

I am not in US and I am mainly resonable for the site, so if something was to come up which it probably will not (also the amount of WOD content on the web clearly shows WhiteWolf don't care) then Yola would not be held responable thus I would be firest asked to take the content down. Also I am based in UK the laws here are different I am not breaking any laws here. Here is a passage from one of the copyright laws:

8.Acts that are allowed
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:

•Private and research study purposes.
•Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
•Criticism and news reporting.
•Incidental inclusion.
•Copies and lending by librarians.
•Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
•Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”.
•Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
•Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from PRS for Music.)

Trogers2 wrote:I am not in US and I am mainly resonable for the site, so if something was to come up which it probably will not (also the amount of WOD content on the web clearly shows WhiteWolf don't care) then Yola would not be held responable thus I would be firest asked to take the content down. Also I am based in UK the laws here are different I am not breaking any laws here. Here is a passage from one of the copyright laws:

8.Acts that are allowed
Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:

•Private and research study purposes.
•Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
•Criticism and news reporting.
•Incidental inclusion.
•Copies and lending by librarians.
•Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
•Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”.
•Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
•Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.
(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from PRS for Music.)

Yes I've looked at the UK law Tom, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 is from the UK..
Are we using WW's books for:
Private and research study purposes? No
Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes? No
Criticism and news reporting? No
Was it:
Incidental inclusion? Hell No
Are we librarians? No, so:
Copies and lending by librarians. No
Or eh..:
Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes. No
Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”. No
Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program. No
Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society. .. uhm no.

Kikopuz wrote:Yes I've looked at the UK law Tom, the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 is from the UK..
Are we using WW's books for:
Private and research study purposes? No
Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes? No
Criticism and news reporting? No
Was it:
Incidental inclusion? Hell No
Are we librarians? No, so:
Copies and lending by librarians. No
Or eh..:
Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes. No
Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”. No
Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program. No
Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society. .. uhm no.

Actually we use the info for a lot of the events listed on that list, the purpose of the WOD pages was to "teach" the people who did not know much about them in the first place.

for educational purposes - Yes actually we are, the WOD pages are used to teach or boost the knowledge of WOD and that is why people view them to learn.

Criticism and news reporting - Yes and No, we have used the forums to comment on WOD before and I have used the news pages in the past also for WOD content.

This will be my final word on this:

We are not breaking UK copyright laws at all, US laws are different and we would be breaking the law if I was baed there. The fact that Yola are US has little impact as Yolas terms and condions state. The person mainly responable for the site (that is me) thus the copyright laws would be UK based.

guys fact is WW is right you arent, whatever your countries law states,
take my KK pack for example, if i get a global copyright on it, and you use it without my permission i can sue you after a warning, it doesnt matter where YOU are, it matters where THEY are.

anyways its pointless to discuss anymore as Isador has put the required lines on the pages anyways, and therefor you are safe as you kept to the guidelines with the decleration that the content is owned by WW.

but hey its up to you, when i meet WW at EVE Fanfest in 5 days i can ask them if you want rofl

Moepy, I don't know what your 'KK Pack' is, but it sounds like 'derived work' of WoD. How can you get a copyright on someone else's work? Like WW said:

Please keep in mind that anything that is based on, derived or taken from our works is still owned by us. For instance, if you make a character from clan Gangrel, remember that is not your character and could never be used without our permission.

And Tom:
No you're wrong.
First of all, CRITICISM AND NEWS REPORTING, !maybe! apply to our Forum and News page, however, not our WoD page..
Second, Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (of UK!) is very clear about the permitted acts in relation to copyright works.
Chapter III of Part one of the Act: .32 Things done for purposes of instruction or examination.

(3) Copyright is not infringed by anything done for the purposes of an examination by way of setting the questions, communicating the questions to the candidates or answering the questions.

Our WoD page is meant to increase our knowledge of WoD yeah, that doesn't automatically mean that we may copy it and say it's for educational purpose, there is no solid legal footing for such a claim.
Everybody can upload music and films and say: "Oh it's just for educational purposes, so it's permitted under fair dealing/fair use rules." However, that way everybody could provide everybody with a copy of everything.. Meaning the Copyright Act would be quite useless.. So saying that it's "to teach people" doesn't mean that we can COPY it on the internet (without infrining the copyright).

Kikopuz wrote:Moepy, I don't know what your 'KK Pack' is, but it sounds like 'derived work' of WoD. How can you get a copyright on someone else's work? Like WW said:

Please keep in mind that anything that is based on, derived or taken from our works is still owned by us. For instance, if you make a character from clan Gangrel, remember that is not your character and could never be used without our permission.

was just an example of something i created that trogers would know :p
but unlike you im within the guidelines and an offical member of the WW dark pack so ;D

lol alright. although...

Moepy wrote:but unlike you im within the guidelines and an offical member of the WW dark pack so ;D

You still wouldnt get a copyright;
1) its not the original work (if this 'KKPack' thing is based on WoD that is..)
2) if this 'KKPack' is something of the KK as in Kindred Knights than we are the ones holding the copyright! =D

The member 'Kikopuz' has done the following action : Dice Roll

#1 'Dice roll' : 1, 3, 8, 4, 2, 5, 6

--------------------------------

#2 'Dice roll' : 2, 7, 1

--------------------------------

#3 'Dice roll' : 4, 2, 3, 9, 5, 4

OMG what is that! XD

You failed

ok enough. The bottom line is the WOD pages will stay. Locking this topic, no more bitching here.

Also Kiko I suggest you read the laws again